Dragon Ball, Dragon Ball Z, Dragon Ball GT Even Dragon Ball AF or Dragon Ball Z Kai (Eww) Episodes games art manga movies OVA series, anything dealing with Dragon Ball WHATEVER, discuss it.
Ah...the memories, the anticipation for the next saga! This will forever be one of the greatest anime ever created!! although I do have some discrepancies with the movie side of DBZ, the series was awesome! My favorite character from the series "Vegito"
On the movie side of things, my favorite character is the one and only "Broly" This is where my discrepancies come into play, Broly is the most powerful saiyan there is (that's right I said is) the way he was "defeated" was a way I don't accept! As the move Goku used was one he never had and is never seen again (not once in the series does he use it again) and I mean a punch? really? a punch finshed Broly "The Legendary Super Saiyan"! I don't think so!! If Goku had used a spirit bomb or something relative to his character, then I would have said ok, at least it's a move he can actually do! If Goku, Vegeta, Piccolo, and Trunks couldn't beat Broly 4 on 1, how can them giving Goku what little energy they had left, (after Broly beat them into near oblivion) be enough to beat Broly? It's not, Broly brushed off the kamehameha like it was nothing, yet a energy punch beat him?! A lot of fans try to downplay Broly's power by putting him the same category as "Perfect Cell", What? Broly and Perfect Cell, it's no contest, Cell would die, end of story! Broly is the only sayian who gets stronger during battle ( which is equivalent to a saiyan getting stronger after every battle) this alone makes him unbeatable!! These same fans are also quick to note, that "Broly: The Legendary Super Saiyan" movie is non-canon (meaning it's not a part of DBZ's storyline) which means nothing! The reason "Broly: The Legendary Super Saiyan" is non-canon, is simple! The creator realized that Broly was invincible and that Goku would die at his hands, if this movie was made canon, so at the last minute the story was turned in Goku's favor (cliche, Hero always wins) as he defeated Broly with a move that doesn't exist! I can't blame them though, because no Goku means no DBZ, which has grossed an incredible amount of revenue via games, DVD's, etc... but as far as I'm concerned Broly is the most powerful saiyan in the DBZ universe, period!! sidenote: In a recent DBZ game (can't recall the name as I haven't played a DBZ game since Tenkaichi Budokai 2) release Broly was given the "rank" and look of a Super Saiyan 3, which was pointless, being as how his power level is already that of a Super Sayian 3!!
I think Broly is more Super Saiyan 4, when he's skinny & no t powered up he's like Super Saiyan 3. & I agree it was kinda odd Goku finishing him with a power punch, like WTH did they forget he has a spirit bomb ? i mean really. You know what really got me, the ending of GT, Shenron throws an energy blast vegeta is going to do this noble deed & Sacrifice himself to save everyone & then BOOM! Goku pushing vegeta out of the way & takes the hit. Nice, talk about stealing the spotlight.
You know what Vampire, I agree Broly's power would have him ranked as a Super Saiyan 4, seeing as he can just continually power up during battle!! Yeah, his second form, is more like a SS3, I mean his transformation is vicious, all that power he released!! He really is a monster, when it comes to power!! Yeah, the focus of DBZ was on Goku too much, when there were other DBZ warriors, like Vegeta, Trunks, and Gohan, who never got their chance to shine! Especially Vegeta, who was 100% saiyan!
Super Saiyan V & Mystic Saiyan 2 I know right, there were others to focus on to, even though i didn't like Teen or adult Gohan at all. That's kinda like Dragon Ball AF, even though it's not officially recognised as part of the Dragon Ball series Dragon Ball AF actually showed each character becoming more then a back seat character to Goku. Vegeta Super Saiyan V GohanMystic Saiyan 2 If Dragon Ball AF was more consist & professionally done, i'd surely watch.
The author actually give Gohan the lead character, but a lot of people didn't like it, so the focus turned back to Goku.
Yea i kinda saw that, during the Majin Buu right ? It was like a passing of the torch to Gohan, but me & i'm sure alot of DBZ fans are like WTH?! Vegeta is right there!!!! He can't take over ?
This is definitely something that should have happened at some point in the series, we all know Goku is the lead character, but that doesn't mean he's the end all be all! Vegeta, as I already pointed out he is 100% saiyan, just like Goku, so the plot line should have been shared between the two, after a certain point! Instead Vegeta was always in Goku's shadow, when he trained as hard, if not harder than Goku! Any other saiyan that was apart of the DBZ warriors was 50% or 25% (in Pan's case) so it's understandable that they would never rise to a prominent position! Yet what many die hard Goku fans fail to realize is that, without Vegeta, Goku would've never been able to save Gohan and the others during the Buu saga or defeat Shenron! (fusion anyone?)
You know Goku cheated to get where is in power. The Sacred Water gave Goku the strength needed to defeat King Piccolo & the ability to sense chi, Vetgeta learned how to sense chi on his own. At one point Vetgeta could actually sense the dragon balls but that was never talked about again. Remeber the english version, Vetgeta first appears on earth different voice & he was much more intelligent so intelligent that if they kept Vetgeta that way he would've become SS4 long before Goku became a Super Saiyan 2. Actually he should have, according to the logic to become a Super Saiyan 4 a saiyan would have to retain his sense of awareness. The only way a Saiyan can attain Super Saiyan 4 is if he is already a Super Saiyan, can transform into a Golden Great Ape and regain conscious control over the form. So conveniently Vetgeta loses the ability to replicate moonlight & never grows his tail back after only losing it once.
I see your very knowledgeable about DBZ! Yeah, everything you've said is true, Vegeta, would've been Super Saiyan, long before Goku, in fact Vegeta would've killed Goku, early on, had it not been for Krillin and Yajirobe! Yeah, it seems they made the story to cater just to Goku, and by some odd chance, he gets transformed back into a kid and regains his saiyan tail! Whereas Vegeta was left to have to artificially attain the power of SS4!
Well, Vegita was a prince, so probably he got special education and his planet was 10 times the gravity. Goku didn't have that luxury until later on. Also chi didn't really get illustrated until the tenka ichi budoukai when Tenshinhan comes out. It seems the settings for chi was finalized when the Saiyans comes to earth. Also, Goku only sensed eerie atmosphere from King Piccolo, and if that was chi is very vaguely illustrated. I don't recall Vegita sensing the dragon ball, I think it was probably because it was near a bunch of people and assumed it was there. And most of all if Vegita didn't meet Goku as a rival, he probably didn't grow that much. If he did show some increase in power, he probably would have been killed by Freeza. Goku had better fighting sense (a true born pure fighter) and Vegita had a better fighting logic (an intelligent fighter from experience and education). Also, inorder to become the golden ape, you need to be somewhere around the strength of SSJ3 (doesn't mean you need to become one).
Vetgeta was sent on missions to invade planets by freeza as little kid of course his power would've become stronger meeting Goku or not. In a few episodes of Dragon Ballz before the redubbing Vetgeta could vaguely sense Dragon Balls. Vetgeta knew that freeza knows that saiyans get stronger with each battle & he knew freeza killed the Saiyan race because of it. Vetgeta left freeza after his return trip home & after he healing he left freeza because he found out about the Dragon Balls & tried beating freeza to them on the planet namek. Vetgeta would've found out about the Namekian Dragon Balls sooner or later anyway with or without meeting Goku. It is attained by Saiyans who have a tail, a sufficient power level DOESN'T HAVE TO BE SUPER SAIYAN 3 POWER LEVEL, and are already in use of the Super Saiyan form and above before looking at either a full moon or a full planetary body (sunlight reflected from a planet apparently works equally well as Blutz Waves, as Goku used the "full Earth" to transform).
Saiyan only increase huge power if they get nearly killed in battle. Going to battle doesn't increase it (gaining experience is another thing). Saiyan were invading planets that they typically can handle without trouble and most probably didn't calculate anything where they get nearly killed. Haven't seen that dub version, but if they needed to redub it, then probably they thought they made a mistake on it. The original Japanese version show no sign of it anywhere. If you want to treat the first dub as official, then that's your call and I'm not arguing. I didn't say you need to be SSJ3 to become a golden ape, just need to be somewhere close to it or have potential to be one. I think this was stated in the official GT settings book. And yes, you need the tail for the requirement. Also Freeza destroyed Vegita's planet because he feared that the legend that once in a millennium a Legendary Super Saiyan will appear is true and didn't want to miss around with all the Saiyan if they revolted. So he just went and destroyed most of them. He left a few so it's easier to monitor and can be used as his pawn. Vegita never knew how the planet was destroyed until Dodoria asks for mercy and tells the truth of the destruction. He was told a lie from Freeza that it was destroyed by a large meteorite. Vegita gets pissed that Freeza was using him all the time, and eventually kills Dodoria. The whole Dragon ball info was gained when Radish came to get Goku's help to destroy a planet. All the talk was leaked through the scouter and that is the first time Vegita got the info. Also, they never knew that it was a creation by Namek until Nappa and Piccolo battle each other. This is probably where Freeza got the info and started packing for planet Namek.
Through tough training, Saiyans are able to reach new levels of power, and the more intense training and fights they go through, the stronger they become. If a Saiyan survives a near-death experience through extreme injury to the body, then, when the body recuperates, the Saiyan grows much stronger than they were previously, their body adapting to compensate for the damage dealt. The duration of recovery does not seem to hinder this ability as Saiyans have healed through natural, technological and mystical means and still gained substantial increases in strength. I'm sure there were a few mistakes with the first dubbing of DBZ, things misses things edited for television & whatsoever, i just like the first dubbing of voices used lol. Vegeta could vaguely sense the dragon balls, wasn't pinpoint but he could in the first dubbing.
There are several factors that come into play in terms of a Saiyan, being able to increase his power through battle! 1. Through tough training, Saiyans are able to reach new levels of power, and the more intense training and fights they go through, the stronger they become. 2. After battles, Saiyans are placed inside a fast-healing machine. It has high-caliber performance, being able to completely heal even a gravely injured person on the brink of death in 30 to 40 minutes' time. After a Saiyan is healed from a great injury, it has been said by Vegeta numerous times that they will become stronger. This power inrease is known as Zenkai. (This way was no longer relevant after a the namek saga) *note: Eventually, seeing how quickly some of the more gifted Saiyan warriors were gaining power through battle, Frieza grew concerned with the potential of the Saiyan race and thought that they would grow strong enough to face him or even become the fabled Super Saiyans, able to defeat him in battle! We know there are 2 types of saiyan classes "Elite" and "Low"! I think it's the Elite class saiyans (noted by Frieza as the more gifted ones) who power up after every battle and the low class ones who power up from near death battles! As I recall Vegeta saying that a saiyan gains strength after every battle, I believe it was during the Frieza saga, I'm not sure. (it might have even been said by him on DBZ GT: Final Bout!) This is proven in the 1st way I pointed out, that saiyan's powers increase through battle! The battle has to be intense, and not an easy win! There are many different ways for a saiyan's power to increase, so there's really no wrong or right answer! It just depends on the saiyan your talking about, because there are exceptions!
I have to bring up voice acting, now for the most part the current DBZ VA are sufficient (Goku, Vegeta, Bulma, Piccolo, Chi-chi, etc...) the only VA I dislike is Trunks (which is actually the same guy that narrates the battles of the world tournament) his VA makes him sound weak, whereas Trunks was very unforgiving to Frieza, who he finished off within minutes of encountering him! The best VA I've heard for Trunks is from DBZ GT: Final Bout, where he was voiced by Skip Stellrecht, who gave Trunks that much needed fierce quality of a saiyan! check out his voice over in final bout below, skip lol to 7.07, as the person who made this video is rather lackluster about the video itself! My apologizes for this video, as there is no other video that displays the english voice! It appears there are biased VA gamers, the same way there are biased anime VA actors, who prefer the JP VA actors to the NA ones! [video=youtube;csWCPUYpaQ4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=csWCPUYpaQ4[/video]
I should have worded more clearly. Yes, they power up by intense training and battle, but getting close to death gives them the huge boost. (It is been calculated that they power up about 33% up till they battle Freeza, but that number becomes strangely ambiguous later on as Vegita powers up around 1000% during the Freeza battle, but that's around the time the numbers really inflates like crazy) Goku kind of cheats with this method during his training to Namik by training near death and using Senzu as instant recovery. There were 3 classes: royal, elite, and low, and elite and low was determined by their strength when they are born. The royal is from the royal family. The ones with higher strength are categorized as elite and the lower ones are categorized as low class. Goku was 2 when he was born and was put in lower class Goku's father Barduck was in lower class, but was around 10000 when he tried to fight Freeza Vegita was elite and had 18000 when he invaded Earth Vegita's dad was a little above 10000 when Vegita was a kid, and Vegita said he surpassed his dad at that time (so Vegita was only able to level up less than 8000 for 25 years) Napa was elite and had 4000 when he invaded Earth Broly was 10000 when he was born, but was considered too dangerous by the royal family and was sent to be executed Turles was lower class and had 190000 (max, but this is probably by eating the fruit all the years). He goes to 500000 by eating 2 fruits during battle So class means nothing that much as how they get stronger. Goku, Barduck, Turles(doping) are rare example where it shows that the lower class can be stronger than elite class, but usually the Saiyan race is said that they usually die in battle before getting any stronger. Goku and Barduck both usually got nearly killed each battle but somehow were able to avoid dying so they showed greater span of growth.
It does feel that way, but he only dies 2 times. (or 3 if you want to add the GT ending) It's the same number as Vegita or most Z warriors except a few that dies 3 (Chiaotzu, Piccolo) and 4 times (Kuririn). The ones that never died is Mr. Satan (or Hercule in US), the dog, and Fortuneteller Baba. Others at least died 1 time when Majin Buu distroyed earth.
